Ep. 1: We're Back for Season 2 Ya'll!

Written By Andrew X

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  • Jessica Norwood 0:00

    Hi, Andrew.

    Andrew X 0:01

    Hi, Jessica. Oh,

    Jessica Norwood 0:03

    I love it. I mean every time you do it, it just does everything for me. This is this is Phoenix, Arizona and your love him. Hi.

    Andrew X 0:15

    Phoenix has arisen so are we playing as it's kind of like it right now? Are we in it? Well,

    Nikishka Iyengar 0:24

    let's kick us off actually.

    Andrew X 0:26

    Okay

    Road to Repair Theme Song 0:33

    you ready, we get down to business investing in existence shifting from a system steeped in extraction that steady sapping peoples and planet to cash in slashing, widening gaps in our access to land wealth, peace, satisfaction. Imagine basing relations on more than transactions. It's time for new pathways, and we need to shape them through our inner landscapes, our relations, our approach, our dedication, we're on the road to repair as a commitment to transformation.

    Nikishka Iyengar 1:06

    Welcome to the road to repair a podcast exploring our journey out of a business as usual economy to work collective healing and liberation. We are your co hosts Andrew X.

    Jessica Norwood 1:17

    Jessica Norwood.

    Nikishka Iyengar 1:18

    And I'm Nikishka Iyengar.

    Andrew X 1:19

    And we're very excited for this conversation.

    Nikishka Iyengar 1:26

    Welcome to roto repair.

    Jessica Norwood 1:29

    We are here back for season two. Very excited. I am joining Nikishka and Andrew X. And I am Jessica Norwood. And we are the co host of road to repair. Y'all. We made it back to season two, whoa, I knew we would come back. But the when we would come back the timing of that felt a little difficult to pin down. Because there was so much life happening light and literal sense actually happened to I will wait for Nikki to tell you all about that. But I'll start. So we launched the first season, December 2021. It closes and wraps up I think at the New Year in 2022. And now we are one year later, back at it again. All right. So what's happened in a year for me, I got a book deal. That was a big thing. I am excited to be joining bear Kohler and writing my first book. And it's amazing. I'll thank you so much for every bit of encouragement. And it's a full circle moment, Nikki, because we started off talking about writing a book, which then led us to say let's do a podcast, which came back around to and a book. So I've been in the thick of it, as they say on social media into the thick of it. I have been in the thick of it working on this book. And I'm excited about it, and also hella scared and excited because it's been a long time coming. You know, we'll be talking about all the reparative things that we talk about on this show. I'll be talking about it in the book. And the book is called believing you money. What would it look like if the economy loved black people? And as you can imagine, even if you just hold that question, what would it look like? If the economy loved black people? You know that the answer is all about repair. It's all about the things that we talk about on the podcast and believe in you money really is this sort of quality or characteristic of what systems change would look like if you were investing in black and brown entrepreneurs? Like what would that mean for you to do? And the book explores all of that I had a great time talking to a mica IBO and canta Mason. And so you Renee Taylor, and just all of our favorites, Brendan Martin, from seed commons, just some brilliant minds about everything about risk, and who matters in the world and truth telling, because listen, if you're gonna get an economy that loves black people, you're gonna have to start with telling the what truth. And so these folks in that book did not shy away from hitting that point of that needs to be some serious truth telling. So I'm really excited about the book. And it'll be out in the fall and October 2023 is when the book is scheduled to come out. So hopefully, if you're listening to this podcast, you will be buying a book pre ordering a book or something to that nature. And I think we'll have some other episodes this season, at least maybe one about the book itself, you know, but yeah, I think that was one of the big highlights for me. What about you, Nikki was a major highlight for you. I feel like I've got an answer here.

    Nikishka Iyengar 4:36

    Yeah, I guess my biggest one is I had a whole baby since the last time we recorded. And it's funny when we were like we counting the timeline. Yes, we launched season one at the end of 2021 wrapped up in 2022. But really, the three of us have been together on this little project since 2020. Since the shutdown. It's kind of wild to just reflect on everything that's happened since then. But anyway, yeah, I have have a new baby. My older one is a big brother. It's been really, really sweet. Like I was a family. And on the flip side I was sharing with everyone before we started recording is that I am constantly sick. Now my kids are bringing home every virus possible viruses, you've never heard of viruses that went dormant a million years ago, that have come back through these babies from daycare, and they're hitting us one after another. So we're grappling with all of that, but it's been it's been really sweet. And you know, the like child care battles that we've grappled with over the pandemic, I think about what else has changed is like we've all been sort of like slowly back out in the world, right? I feel like I've been one of the the last few people to enter back out, and I still mask everywhere, which no one seems to be doing anymore. kind of clumsy. But COVID has been folks know this, but has also been a math disabling event. And people don't really know how to reckon with that, I'm realizing. But yeah, that's been on the life run on the work for the guild finally became a worker, own Co Op, I think we were talking about it last season that we were like, in the process of in the legal paperwork, and everything has been complete. And it's been really nice. I have two kids, after the first kid, I didn't really have a maternity leave, because it was just me. And if I wasn't doing the work, nothing was happening at the kill. This time, I have not just a team, but co owners, worker owners and the company and I got a full three months off. They refuse to hit me up for anything, even though I begged them to. And it felt like nothing fell through the cracks like things were handled. It's felt like a weight off my shoulder as a founder. And Jessica, I'm sure you can relate to a lot of this too, as a founder to see just people that are also in it the way that I am. This is their baby to now. It's been really nice. And on the creative work front. Yeah, I don't know, just like I had to shelve my book. I keep bringing it back and then putting it back on the shelf. Like, can I really do this with the season, which I'm in my life right now. We're two kids and everything. It'll come back, it'll come back at some point. But right now I'm having a lot of fun doing our second podcast on the guilt side of things really getting ready to finally launch that I think I've been talking about last season, but it's finally on its way out. And it's you know, I'm just examining and interrogating the ways in which the real estate industry has had a stranglehold on all aspects of our life, from housing, to access to good food to our school systems to taxation, and like everything in the real estate industry has really had a stranglehold on our communities. It's sort of like this Invisible Hand that dictates the way cities operate. And a lot of it is so opaque and we don't really know how the industry works. And so the podcasts, interview scholars, organizers, activists, practitioners that are not just interrogating the President, in all the ways the industry is toxic and extractive and the epitome of this, like hyper capitalist system, but it's also the people that we're interviewing are also dreaming and building towards a more liberatory land based future, you'll be excited to launch that in conjunction with Season Two road repair. And it could be two little sister podcasts that will be out in the world at the same time. So yeah, that's me, Andrew

    Andrew X 8:09

    Nikishka, bringing a whole new baby. I don't know how you do what you do to be real. But I know that there is that book living inside of you that wants to also be birth. And I very much look forward to that. Also, Jessica, as I'm sure many of the listeners out there, are extremely excited to see the release of Lolita new money. I'm super excited for the both of you for everything that you're birthing into the world. And on my end, let's see, we launched and ran our first season, as we mentioned at the end of 2021 through the beginning 22. And around that time, I had been taking space, a really deep dive into amending my internal soil, really investing in my mental emotional spiritual wellness is traveling a lot of sitting in ceremony and doing the work facing the shadows, you know, that this past year, I have been revisiting how I'm approaching right livelihood, my dharma, my relationship to it, and just how I go about that something I've always been very intentional with. But a big part of what I realized in moving through what I needed to move through in the past year, year and a half is realizing that I need to really integrate caring for myself more in the work. I need to include myself in my vision, not just thinking oh, what's the impact that I want to have in the world but thinking about okay, what is actually rewarding, restorative, regenerative for me personally fulfilling in the doing of the work, and that's an exploration with tons of valuable learning and self knowledge for me. And also even just that whole frame of finding a systematic way to create a fulfilling livelihood studying my little micro motivations I read Really incredible book called Dark Horse by some folks at Harvard that looks at folks who really prioritize personal fulfillment in their working world, their dharma journey, and how they go about that. And so I've learned a lot from that and have been applying that to my life and exploring, really kind of like shaking the Etch A Sketch and starting from scratch and cultivating beginner's mind and did everything from like teaching kids, adults leading various workshops, working with incredible facilitators experienced designers facilitating connection through art, kind of doing some like culture and people work within organizations worked a little bit with this absolutely incredible organization called latenight art, this incredible facilitation of connection within organizations through artistic expression and music. And it's a truly incredible experience the founder of that Adam Rosendahl is somebody that I respect enormously, and who has come to become a very dear friend of mine, I work with a close collaborator of his in that organization, Lotus Swan, it's really led me to where I am in this moment currently, where one of the things that I was leaning into a lot in that journey really focusing on self, which many people might view as selfish or self indulgent in a way. But on this show, we focus on this kind of personal to the systemic, and everywhere in between. And I realized that so much of my focus began with the systemic and then trickled back to the personal. And so it's been a real process to invert that, and to really prioritize and explore Okay, what if I actually start with the personal for many years, I've had practices of caring for myself in certain ways that I am now blending into some of these recent Dharma practices that I've been leaning into. I've brought massage therapy back into the fold, which is great. I love offering massage. My clients are very happy. But now I'm in a place, we just weave the threads together that I've opened up for you. So Adam Rosenthal, with late night art, who I mentioned, and Lotus Wong, who is an incredible solopreneur in her own right has some incredible courses, but has also been working with common future as people and culture person for the past year and some change. And the two of them invited me to go to this gathering with other experienced designers, where I was able to prototype a whole new offering of community body care. And this weekend of like really incredible, special ceremonial, we did like a calling in and letting go ceremony that was really powerful. And just from the seeds of deep personal self care has blossomed all of this external growth. So from that point, this wrapping into the fold all of these self care practices, I'm now prototyping a whole new offering of personalized wellness services, kind of like a wellness therapist. Still, among other things, I'm still exploring many things, but it's just been so interesting for me to weave in that approach of caring for the personal first, and then moving from that place, and being able to support others that I've been helping friends kind of on the side with dietary support and massage and strength training and all of these things. And now it's all kind of coming together within this unique offering that I'm just excited to kind of continue to build off of because as you know, even through the thread of this show repair, it's very synonymous with healing with liberating this latent potential that we have that wants to express itself. So that's kind of the arc of the journey from where we've been last time to this moment. I just relocated to Phoenix Arizona and launching round two of this podcast. I feel like it just took up a ton of time

    Jessica Norwood 13:54

    I'm convinced though that it will be your voice that brings all the listeners to the yard and so I'm fine with you taking whatever time you need to take because all I'm sitting here thinking is seeing those little stars light up or people saying five five you know like the best podcast ever best best ever so hmm

    Nikishka Iyengar 14:24

    like he hasn't special way of Andrew I would say like personal and interpersonal like so Andrew and I met at another friend who we should probably bring them on the podcast at some point our friends Jace and Joanna, who came up with the book, beloved economies and Jessica is featured in that book.

    Jessica Norwood 14:42

    I left off so much stuff. When I heard when I heard Andrew speak and I was like, Oh, I didn't talk about like personal life changes or anything like that left out a whole bunch of stuff. But Justin Joanna would be fantastic on his podcast

    Nikishka Iyengar 14:57

    in a different full circle moment. There now I'm working with the guild. We're getting ready to launch this big capital campaign between our organization and another one we're working with called community movement builders. Anyway, Jess and Joanne are consultants on the campaign and our after beloved economies is wrapped up. They're like working with us now. So definitely like full circle in a lot of ways. And I was gonna say Andrew to your point like Jessica, have you you have y'all met in person yet? You and Andrew?

    Jessica Norwood 15:31

    know Andrew, are you sure?

    Nikishka Iyengar 15:34

    You in person yet either? Jessica?

    Jessica Norwood 15:36

    Are you serious? We haven't met in person. Okay, I would just realize there's going to be a road to repair meetups. sesh in either Atlanta or Phoenix, whichever one works for us to get to.

    Nikishka Iyengar 15:53

    We're going to take to prepare on the road,

    Jessica Norwood 15:55

    we're definitely going to meet up and it'll be an epic moment for us to just be in the same room and then we'll have to figure out who we want to interview for this iconic meeting of the minds moment because isn't that we have never met in person.

    Nikishka Iyengar 16:10

    I know. I'm just realizing too. I'm like waves. Weird everybody's

    Jessica Norwood 16:14

    pocket. Oh my God, there's so weird. They've never even met each other. Yes, you can fall in love online, check it out,

    Andrew X 16:21

    they'll understand it's the bits. We'll call it a product of the pandemic. You know,

    Jessica Norwood 16:26

    I'm a you know, I'm we know, we've been through every life moment with each other and have never met.

    Jessica Norwood 16:33

    Like, that's the intensity of what I'm actually talking about. It's like, every everything is like transitioning jobs, relationships, baby disappointments at work, you know, raising money doing, we have done it all together, recalibrated our lives and we want to offer our offerings, all of those things. We've done that together. And we've never physically been in a same space. That is buck wild. Okay, we're going to Atlanta. Y'all heard it first. And this will be a road to prepare on the road. And we will be in Atlanta. I have a vision for us being on a row was like a really sexy car.

    Jessica Norwood 17:17

    I don't have any other details feel good. Other than I'm cute. And I'm in a sexy car. That's it. That's

    Nikishka Iyengar 17:27

    eaten hand me down Prius, not that sexy.

    Jessica Norwood 17:32

    Talking about like, you know, y'all don't know this about me, because we've never met. But I love a themed party. And I love photo shoots. And that about you? We've never met people want people who are listening to this will will thank you. Of course she knows that. But I just want to underscore Yes, she may know that. And we've never met. I've never kissed her babies, although I feel like those are my babies. So we've got to, we've got to pull this together. That'll be something that we shoot for. But I definitely forgot to add in like personal dynamic things that were happening in my life as well. But maybe we can use that to transition into what's going forward. Because let me just tell you, whatever was happening with my personal life, it continues to evolve. And to change. I'm here to mature. So how about that? How about I moved to the second prompt here. Okay. So another thing that we were asking ourselves is what happened over the past year? And now this question that I want to pose to you both is really about where we're going. And so looking forward, what are some of the new or deepening ways in which you're incorporating repair into your work or your life, and I pick back up on this one, looking forward, incorporating repair into my life into my work, man, so many different things. I mean, I talked about the book, but let me drop into like life stuff, and repair stuff. A really big thing that happened was the release of the film descendant and descendants is on Netflix. You can look it up right now, who was released by higher ground, which is Michelle and Barack Obama's production company, and it follows the story of the descendants of enslaved peoples who came to Africa town, and Africa town is in Alabama in the southernmost part. It sits right between the city of mobiel and the city of Prichard. And it is the first area that was settled in led by Africans who were free and still retained a lot of knowledge and culture. And the reason that that was possible is because the Africans that came to Africa town were captured in the nene and enslaved 50 years after slavery would have been outlawed. And so there It was a guy named Timothy Mayer. And his family is still prominent, immobile now and still owns a lot of the real estate to your point, Nicky. And there's this interplay between the ownership of real estate and environmental issues, issues around, obviously power, right and resource access and all the things that we talk about on road to repair. And it just so happens to be in my backyard, maybe three miles from my house and a place and a community that I grew up knowing about but also watching black leadership continue to push to tell the story and watching the powers that be denied the story. It really brings up the questions around the mayor family, the mayor family still owns the majority of that land. So that land that these Africans were using their labor and trying to buy pieces of the mayor family still owns that land, and also the area where one of the most prominent people because Zula Nick CUDA Lewis was called Lewis quarters, but his African name is Missoula, where he lived that area, the area is still owned by the Lewis family, but everything around it is this timber company, you know, wood and that timber company is owned by the mayor of mobiel. So you have the mayor family, which is spelled M E A H ER, that's how you say, Mayor, and then you have the mayor in a Y O R, the mayor of the city named Stetson, and these two families are connected, long term connected and have continued to keep the power building the storytelling, and the healing of this community locked away. If it were not for the black people. And it folks in that community who keep telling that story. If it were not for black leadership in the city of Prichard, Alabama, which is the majority black community that was born out of Africa town, then we wouldn't even know what we know today. So when I think about repair, I think about that community. And one of the things that I was really honored to do with the end of 2022, going into 2023 was to work with all Amina fund. And Nikki, thank you for being a part of that community to help local folks get a portion of this land, small piece. It's not everything, but it's a start. And it's a powerful start. And so to your point, Nikki, you know, this real estate piece is not only shaping what our future looks like, but there's a lot about what the past has been about, and who gets to own that we're not making more land. So where that ownership is and what it means to repair that damage. The this film is out now it's out around the world. I know that the descendants and the mayor family's descendants have met. But there's been no conversation about returning land or what it means to sort of make it right. And I think right now it feels so strong in my spirit to continue to support Africa town and any communities like it, particularly my own community to be able to push back against this continued extraction of a community and the people. So that may be my forward stuff forward in repair straight up. What about you, Nick, you was feeling present for you.

    Nikishka Iyengar 23:14

    I'm so excited. You're working on this, Jessica. And so Jessica reference hola Mina fund. I'm on the community advisory board of all Amina fund and we're getting into the second iteration of the fund. And the fund was really set up to address the racial wealth gap in fund historically extracted from communities, black communities and indigenous communities primarily. And our first iteration we were focusing a lot on like CDFIs. And going through community development, financial institutions and a bunch of us on community advisory board felt really strongly that land and the reclamation of it and the building of alternative land based futures really needs to be front and center for the second iteration of the fund. Africa town is one of the things we're excited to support. There's others. Yeah, I guess like on my end, a lot of what you've said is just deeply resonating in terms of themes of repair relating to Land and Housing and real estate, my trajectory in this work of you know, the Solidarity Economy, next economy, whatever you want to call it, I started out doing climate change work at it took like a really big step back or what I thought was a step back and I'm now connecting back all the pieces through this work as it relates to repairing our relationships with the land in so many different ways. One thing that looking forward, I'm really excited to do obviously this podcast is one vehicle for it or like storytelling around these topics like think the issue of land and housing, particularly these are entry point into how we look at the world overall, especially in a country like America, where your shelter is also this wealth building vehicle. It is the way in which you relate to your neighbors. It's the way in which you show up as a citizen. A lot of times it's along those lines of who's a homeowner versus a renter, and what do they care about or or what part of town do they live in? And what issues do they care about by virtue of what part of town they live in, and so much that is woven into our relationship to housing, and our relationship to LAN. To your point earlier around truth telling one of the episodes in our other podcast that's doing this deep exploration on land and housing is there's an episode called the American Dream is a pyramid scheme. When I was sharing that with somebody, they were just laughing, but then they took a second to be like, holy crap, this is true. The American Dream is a pyramid scheme. I think when you pull apart all of the different pieces that go into owning property, especially in this country, the ways in which I'm incorporating repair are examining interrogating my personal relationship with the land and housing and my communities and communities around the world and looking at how people are choosing to relate to Land and Housing differently to relate to housing as a human right. And what does that mean? What does that mean, in terms of how capital needs to be allocated to projects? What does that mean, in terms of how we change policy? What does that mean in terms of how we organize, there's a lot there. But otherwise, I'm incorporating repair into my life beyond the work is I'm just leaning into how I do this work leaning into like a seasonality. I'm a very, not a Gregorian calendar person. I am, I've always been, I think all of us as human beings are like, not meant to operate on fiscal calendars and Gregorian calendars and all that we're meant to operate on seasons. And so like, now in the still in the wintertime, like I am slow. I am discombobulated. I am, I'm just getting ready for spring and just thinking about what does that mean, in terms of how the guild has to do work? What does that mean, in terms of how I do work, like least leaning into seasonality in listening to my body a little bit more, until you've already been given me like a lot of tips on the side, which I appreciate. Yeah, going inward, I think, you know, we were talking about the book. And it was like half joking. I mean, I am sort of taking the very scenic route to it right now. But I'm slowing down. And I'm letting myself slow down and saying like, it's okay, I'm actually really enjoying this time going slow with my family. Yeah, just like I don't know, there's, there's a lot to say there. And into your own inspiration for this. You're just even you're hearing you talk about this. And you and I have talked about this one on one too. But just the ways in which you incorporate self care is really inspirational, I don't do a good job of caring for myself, like my brain and my body exist on two different planes sometimes in my brain can tell me, I can keep going, and my body will ultimately hit a wall. And I tell myself this over the last couple of years, I've been learning this lesson over and over and over again. And somehow, like, there's a lot more learning to do, and a lot more incorporating to do. And so, Andrew, you're an inspiration, because it radiates from you. Like how you take care of yourself, it is so evident in how you're starting with the self. And it's radiating out to the interpersonal and systemic and all of that, we were talking about how Jessica and I haven't met and you just haven't met, but you and I have met multiple times. And that's one thing that has been I've only watched her grow over the years and knowing you and it's it's like so it's so nice to be in your presence for that reason, you really take care of yourself. And so the start of the new year, like everyone feels pressured to, I don't know, I'm gonna be like, new year new me. And it's like, nope, New Year like, asleep, me. I'm still asleep. Don't talk to me. Like, that's where I'm at in my new year. And so anyway, just yeah, like really leaning into that. And then also like, what does that mean, in terms of bringing those practices into how we operate as a company at the guild, like not putting that kind of pressure on us for you know, quarter one, we've kind of hit all these milestones, like, no quarter one is like slowly easing back into work. And like it is going to set the tone for the rest of the year. And so let's figure out what we want the rest of the year to look like? Do we want it to look frenetic and chaotic and productivity at all costs? Or do we want to look at it as deep work and meaningful work and deep connection as a team and the connection to our communities that we're doing this work in and with and so leaning into just the season of life do like I'm in a season of life right now, where I feel like there are like plenty of you know, I don't want to say it's just parenthood, right? Because there are like plenty of parents out there that are like crushing it. And I just like, I don't seek that anymore. Like, I don't know, I just I am fully sitting with the fact that there are certain projects and there's certain like big pieces of work that I fully feel committed and passionate about, like a book and you know, other things like that, that I will get done at some point. But right now I'm in a season where my kids will never be this little anymore and I am really just enjoying being silly with them. And you know, just, uh gosh. Um, yeah, I mean, and you know, my older one, he's three and a half now. And it's like, I mean, he's having not just full conversations, of course, but like, he has a real sense of humor. And He is funny. He is so funny. He's like, the funniest person I know. And I just have so much fun hanging out with him, or, you know, my eight month old baby who is she'll just look at her brother. Like, he's crazy. But I'm amused, like, it's so cute. It's so sweet watching them. And some days, like an entire day, an entire week, an entire couple of weeks will pass with just this. And I'm just reminding myself that it's not just okay. It's great. Like, I'm lucky I'm I like, this is good fortune to be blessed with all of this. And so like, let me slow down and enjoy it. And the work will get done, you'll get done when it has to get done. And so I've been really shifting like my workflow style to the same theme of like seasons and sprints. So there will be like two weeks where I'll just have like the sudden like mad creative flow, and like energy where I'll, I'll be up till 3am Just working on projects. And it's not out of like, oh, there's a big deadline coming, but it's out of like, Oh, my God, this is so

    good. Yeah, yeah. Like, I'm

    so inspired. I want to keep going and, and then yeah, I'll just rest for two weeks after that. So that's where I'm at. And then one last thing, I'll say, Andrew, and I want to hear from you in terms of what you're looking forward to. But one last thing, so much of our world and so much of the questions of repair, come down to like how do we break past binary thinking, like in this post COVID world as we've been reentering the physical world, there's a binary of the masks versus no masks or vaccines versus no vaccines or it just every aspect of our life, we act like there's just two choices. If you're on one side of it, the other is your enemy. And if you're on the other side of it, like vice versa, and I think we like Rob ourselves of Rob ourselves a potential Rob ourselves of imagination, Rob ourselves of real ways to work together to bring about the repair, we hope to see on every level when we get stuck in this binary thinking. And if you're on Twitter, and or you're on Twitter. Good for you. Twitter is that place where like Nuance goes to die, and I'm on Twitter, I wouldn't say like a ton, but I am on Twitter enough to be like, Oh my god, the world is on fire and it is on fire. But also, like, there's a lot worth fighting for. There's a lot worth saving. And I think a lot of as human beings, you know, when we were talking to Ed Whitfield, we interviewed at Woodfield on his podcast and on the season, and we asked him like what is the biggest challenge of doing this work. And I mean, he's in movement like elder at this point. And I thought he might say something around capital or something around the systems. And he said, the biggest challenge still to this date after work, doing this work for decades is just like working with people. And I think that's the challenge. And the opportunity is like, how do we work together? And one thing I'm really excited to explore in this season is like, how can we hold the both and of this work? No one is perfect. No one is pure. Jessica was alluding to some of this in terms of like the politic of what goes on in movements. And I think the binary thinking is causing a lot of fracturing in the movements and is it's just yeah, like robbing us a whole lot. That's something that I continue to incorporate in my life. And I'm excited to incorporate into into the season of like, move from binary thinking to more like Systems Thinking whole whole systems thinking and just more emergent thinking and operating. So yeah,

    Andrew X 33:32

    absolutely. Yeah. Moving toward the holistic in full alignment with you on that.

    Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing all of that. And yeah, I really appreciate your vulnerability and candor and the richness of what you're sharing and in your journey for myself in my personal journey that I described. I am just seeing over and over this affirmation of starting with the personal and moving to the systemic. And for folks listening, you'll probably hear me playing with this idea and fleshing this out more over the course of the season. Because it's highly relevant for my work personally, right now, but also, I think, has an absolutely critical role in the road to repair in doing this work. So I mentioned I've brought massage therapy back into the fold, right? So many years ago, I had a massage practice that I put down, right, yeah. Yeah, I feel like about any previous lives. But I put that down. It's something that has always been fulfilling for me to do I it's so intimate. There's a very, very tight link between our emotions and our bodies. And so it's like also very emotionally vulnerable and our intimate to be able to enter that space with somebody takes a very high degree of trust and it's so fulfilling to be able to To bring somebody renewal in their body in a deeply felt experience that can touch all kinds of emotions that maybe are stored or there's just, there's a lot there. But part of why I stepped away from that had to do with my intention for greater impact for systemic impact through that work. And so in the process of revisiting that as a sort of known Dharma, I'm saying the word dharma without really kind of like describing going into it, it's like a whole whole huge thing. But just the way in which I'm using it, just to clarify is like, essentially, when I think of the word right livelihood, there's a tight relationship between right livelihood and dharma. Oftentimes, when I thought about Right Livelihood before, I'm thinking about that impact that I want to have in the world, whereas when I'm thinking about Dharma, often I'm thinking about that different like that inversion that I talked about, of starting with the personnel and moving to the systemic from there, that distinction was probably just in my own mind. But just to clarify how I'm kind of using these terms, but massage therapy has been a practice that I've done that has resonated for me and for other people, since I was a child. And I stepped away from it in the professional space, because of an analysis that said, this is kind of like a one off thing. And I want to try and shoot for systemic impact, I could, you know, bring this relief to this person. Now. And also, if there's not a holistic thing, like shift in their lives like that will probably keep, you know, manifesting. And I don't necessarily want to play that type of enabling role, per se, I really want to support people. And I don't have that larger impact through this work. So but a shift that's happening, now that I mentioned, going forward as I'm exploring, prototyping this offering for a particular type of client. And it's often folks kind of like you, Nikki or like Jessica, or like the person who I'm currently working with very high achieving, focus very driven. And to think about the possibility of supporting those who are doing deeply impactful work is like a really exciting reframe, and still moving from that place of the personal to systemic because, and this is kind of where I was driving at when I started doing all this talking in this moment is leaders of organizations are absolutely critical in their role as stewards of energy, not just their own energy, their physical, emotional, mental, spiritual, and financial energy, personally in their lives. But the way in which that microcosm of how that looks in their lives, plays out in the organizational level is a little bit of an invisible thing that happens a lot in organizations, but very oftentimes, leaders are, you know, very high achieving folks will less often is there a holistic balance in their life, that then ripples into a holistic culture within an organization that really holds space for all of those factors, which of course, inform performance, and impact, and all of that. So I'm kind of in a space of toying with that analysis, and live experimenting, practicing both with myself in an ongoing way personally, but also with friends and increasingly in a professional capacity. And you've heard Jessica mentioned conda Mason earlier in this conversation. conda is somebody who I feel like I've been close to by like one degree of separation, like, so many people that I feel close to are really close to conda. And I also have just like, in awe of her and her work, but we have yet to establish like a personal relationship, which I'm hoping for, because she seems incredible. I am absolutely excited about some of the work that she's doing with land based efforts and creating economic pipelines between black farmers and producers, and so on and so forth. That's a hugely exciting, she has an incredible podcast called the brown rice hour. And I listened to a conversation between her and a young woman who I had the pleasure of meeting recently. And it really just like struck me how she is super zeroed in on anybody who knows conda is already like aware of her connection to spirit and bringing in the spiritual component into this work, that this is kind of also like an intrigue for me in the space of befriending many people who self describes themselves as experienced designers, creating a context a container where facilitated repair and healing can happen like I think As a story about what's happening in Alabama with Africa town, and some of what you described with like, the binary aspect, it's like, how do we kind of get underneath that from this almost like epistemic perspective of like, Soul spirit, because we're all handed all of these legacies of trauma of oppression of privilege of whatever. And we deal with that as we may. But we're also just like spirits pulling a, you know, a straw out of a hat. And, you know, granted, you know, some may hold a belief that like, we are coming in with a certain degree of intention and purpose into that thing. But nonetheless, I could just as easily find myself to be born into this world as an incredibly wealthy person, or an incredibly impoverished person and play those cards as I will. But there's this aspect that we all have, that we that we all can relate on, that conda really brings forward. And I want to study her approach and how this is handled, because it seems incredibly effective. But to weave that into some of the relationship repair, and relationship building and mending in order to achieve some of these like moving towards equity things, because without that, it does feel like it comes to that binary tug of war. And how do we kind of like wrap that metaphorical rope around a pole and like, pull in the same direction. So we're like, working together. And I guess I'm seeing that kind of in, you know, I mentioned that physical, emotional, spiritual, mental, all of those things kind of holding and thinking about how that's playing out at the deeply personal level, and connecting that to systemic issues, but always grounding it in rooting it in that that internal soil. So I'm very excited to continue to play with how this can work for me, personally, in my life. And also, so far, it seems to be resonating with folks personally. And I'm learning how to put a little bit more language around these things. So you're catching me at a at a moment of newness and transition and making some of these connections and creating both a holistic offering, but also linking it back to many of the themes that we talked about in the show, and how some of these ideas play out in that context. So hopefully, that's not too abstract. And I'm very excited to share with you, our listeners, our conversation with Ed Whitfield with some of the incredible folks that Jessica is interviewing. And this is going to be an incredible season. I'm still even though I'm focusing on deeply on the personal. I'm still just like many of you out there. And I think all of us on this show, you know, really dreaming of land based living, I still dream of starting running some land based enterprises, living on land in community, I fantasize about living in a managed wilderness ecosystem. There's this really incredible Holistic Management video. Holistic Management is a way of managing animals, animal husbandry, and farming contexts. And there's this video that I really love. It's called 10,000, beating hearts. That's this farmer who has transitioned from being a conventional farmer, to creating this whole crazy wild managed ecosystem, through his farm and his engagement with his community and all of that, and there's so much richness, I feel like that, that I'm rooting into in my vision, kind of a combination between that, and something like Soul fire farm. That's kind of like bringing in the, like, racial healing aspect of it, too. So I'm still really holding all of those things, but just releasing a little bit of prioritizing all of this systemic stuff up front, and working on prioritizing myself the lessons and tools that I'm learning with that how can I share those with others so that we can all move still toward that collective vision, just general sense of wellness,

    Nikishka Iyengar 44:12

    you need to have also like a separate podcast that's like your A Day in the Life of sharing out some I mean, I'm so serious, like, just be you just recording at the end of your day, because work is so important. I think like a lot of us are like sometimes even like maybe scared to do that inner work. It's going to mean and you've had to experience that for yourself, but it's going to mean like letting go of whatever idea you've had about the way your life is. And there's like maybe fear associated with it. There's whatever there's a lot of like inertia and people don't want it's easier sometimes to stomach the problems and it's everything internally and to your point ain't like organizations and institutions and systems are all like, held up and made up of people and held up by and made. So like, yeah, ultimately, and we see this in so many ways, right in the work is like if people aren't healed and whole, like, work will not be healed and whole, and like what we're trying to move forward in the world will not. And so, anyway, I just I think it's so important, Andrew, I think you need to have your own podcast. Audio, you play around with a creative audio, something, it has to be audio because I feel like everything.

    Andrew X 45:40

    Well, there's some things cooking in the fold. So we'll see. We'll see what comes from that. And, yeah, yeah, kind of connecting some of the dots around what you're saying around binary. And what I'm sharing around some of these like personal things, and connecting to the organizational leadership, for example, one of the things that could play out in that like binary thing is like, I could hold a value of, say, honesty, right? Or compassion, or I could hold a value of toughness and tenderness. And oftentimes, we ourselves are kind of like maybe more in that binary of like leaning more on one side of that thing versus the opposing kind of like, emotional characteristic. Right? So part of that getting away from that binary ness is also like, how do we balance? How do we stretch in both directions? And like you said, at Whitfield, and elder in the fields, you know, many others like I've heard Leah Penniman talk about this. I've heard it from previous colleagues like yeah, the people part is an incredible challenge from many different vantage points. That's like hugely broad as a the people part, right. There's like challenges that come specifically from leaders and or people in positions of power challenges that come specifically from people who are operating within a context where they're working for another person or another organization. And there's challenges that come specifically from people working side by side, there's different dynamics and all of those contexts, for sure, that plays out in so many ways in organizational contexts. And those are all really like what I just described, kind of a mix of emotional knowledge and skills that I think also our generation are just in the world right now, there is a new wave or a deepening into emotional awareness of ourselves of having a language of like, a lot of times the trend in organizational context, right has been logic mind, right, versus like a motion mind. And there's also this binary tension between those things. But they're both just intelligences that we have, we might be more familiar with one language than another language, but how can we get those languages to speak to one another, in a way that facilitates whatever objectives we might be holding, you know,

    Nikishka Iyengar 47:54

    on that brain body connection, this is obviously probably not news to you at all. I have learned recently on my journey of trying to bring those two together the role of your central nervous system and regulating on a day to day basis, how we function, how everything is set to put you in this like fight or flight mode in a lot of different ways. Just balancing all of the things that life in 2023 entails. Right? It's like, a flight constantly, and how dysregulated nervous systems are, and it's throwing our entire I mean, obviously, I'm preaching to the choir here, but just learning about, you know, I have a toddler, and he is a toddler, and he has, you know, big feelings. And that was becoming apparent, I knew pretty squarely that I definitely wanted to lean into, you know, people call it respectful parenting or gentle parenting approach. And so much of that parenting approach is like about re parenting yourself. But in the journey be parenting myself, I've learned that if my central nervous system is dysregulated, I'm going to show up in that way, and it's going to dysregulated, my child and my child is going to show anxious and meltdowns and

    Andrew X 49:00

    assaulting organizations, exactly,

    Nikishka Iyengar 49:03

    the light bulb went off when I made that connection. And I mean, he will really be trying me sometimes, but when I step away for a couple of minutes, center myself and regulate my nervous system and re establish a connection with him, the tantrums are stopped. He's not wiling out anymore. He's a kid. If I can do that for myself, it has that ripple effect than it will have it in the workplace or like it could be, you know, across the board. And so I think the work that you're doing, it sounded like you were saying, you feel like maybe it wasn't big enough, when in fact, it's the biggest thing

    Andrew X 49:35

    strategically, you know, I grew up in Jewish community and I remember the story of at least this was the context that I heard it in somebody walking down a beach and all of these, you know, creatures or whatever, like on the beach, and they're gonna die, you know, they're going to dry up and die and somebody's like walking and throwing them back into the ocean. And somebody has walked up to them and like, you know, there's millions of these creatures on this beach like you're not going to make it difference, I don't want like, why are you doing that, and the person replies, it made a difference to that one. And so like on that level, that's always valid in that context. But I'm also thinking about folks who are leaders, leaders of organizations who are managing so many things, and simultaneity and maybe also have a background of being mentally emotionally primed to not care for yourself. And or maybe those people are more geared to bury themselves in the work as a means to kind of cope with something. But the reality is, it takes energy to hold that in order to store that or it's like it might manifest as like tension in the body or something going on with a particular organ or something like that. And it's just that inhibits the fuller energy that that person could be bringing in doing that systemic work. So from that vantage point, it's kind of like, Oh, I see that that's actually just, you know, viewing it as a node within an interconnected network. It's like, if I liberate this place in the body, you know, I have a huge knot in my back right here, like, how is that impacting my whole flow, if I'm able to liberate that symbolically, it's like that can be the difference between achieving one's objectives and going into like a downward spiral, right. And that thing that you brought up around our nervous systems is like, such a key part of that, because that is somatically emotionally, how we experience the world around us. And this is a new thing for me, that has been reflected back of the value that I bring in my dharma of just being is that in my presence, and I think connected to some of the self love practices that I'm carrying, it's like if we can be with ourselves in a good way that we can be with other people in a good way. I don't know, maybe that's related to it, maybe not. But some of the feedback that I've gotten his folks feel like they can maybe let their guard down a little bit or like release some of the frenetic spinning energy.

    Nikishka Iyengar 51:58

    It's also like annoying sometimes, you know, like, when someone is in your presence. I remember at some of the early times we met up Yeah. And I was just like, it was unnerving to be in your presence in a good way. Like, what's really going on over here was? Yeah, like Bay Area, heavy, Andrew or, but obviously, every getting to know you over a long period of time. I'm like, yeah, you've just like taught me so much about why the work of taking care of yourself is the most important work.

    Andrew X 52:34

    So that's kind of you know, the forward going and what's percolating in my mind and in Jessica's mind and Nikishka his mind right now, and we're so grateful for all of you have tuned into season one, and looking forward to continuing to walk further together on this road to repair.

    Jessica Norwood 52:55

    All right, thank y'all see you later. Thanks. Thank you for joining us on the road to repair. Our greatest hope is that this show will have a transformative impact for those of you tuning in the road to repair podcast is produced by Andrew at the Kiska I environment and Jessica Norwood with amazing post production support from Andrew X. Music for the show was produced by Andrew x in close collaboration with artists and sound designer Zachary Seth freer in the luscious vocals and original poetics of nyeem of Panama. Shout out to SOPA hood. For all the amazing artwork, you can check out more of their great work on our website, you can find the link at the road to repair.com. We always love the social media shout outs and you can help this message ripple out to those who might really benefit from it by rating this show and leaving your review on Apple podcast. And if you feel so called you can make a donation to support the show at WWW dot rho to repair.com. Thanks again for tuning in and stay tuned for our next episode.

    Road to Repair Theme Song 54:10

    We said with the land, we are far more than a commodity. We join with the water bodies on our property. We're reclaiming our shared sovereignty and shaping an economy based on reciprocity, cooperative, accountable, grounding, justice and ecology. The Empire is toppling who want to be about this prophecy. We've been summoned to the summit. Trust me here for something what is now possible Who are we becoming?

    Nikishka Iyengar 54:44

    The road to repair is sponsored by the guild in one way. The Guild develops community own models of Land, Housing and real estate as a means to build power and self determination in black and other communities of color. Runway envisions a world where black entrepreneurs strive in a reimagined economy rooted in equity and justice

Andrew X
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