Ep. 3: Transformational Relationships with Sonya Renee Taylor
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In this episode, Sonya Renee Taylor and host Jessica Norwood discuss the importance of transformative relationships and radical self-love in the context of dismantling systems of oppression. Taylor emphasizes that we are inherently worthy and valuable, but society's exploitative systems often make us believe otherwise. In the conversation, Jessica Norwood introduces the idea of transformative relationships versus transactional relationships. To create transformative relationships, we must prioritize dignity and truth-telling, acknowledging the dynamics of power and oppression at play. By doing so, we can work towards building a more just and equitable world.
Highlights:
• Transformative relationships: The discussion focuses on the difference between transactional relationships, which prioritize deals and self-interest, versus transformative relationships that foster right relationships and interconnectedness. It emphasizes the importance of dignity, power balance, and recognizing the inherent worthiness of individuals in building transformative relationships.
• Radical self-love and right relationship: Sonia Renee Taylor shares insights on radical self-love and its role in establishing right relationships with oneself and others. Embracing self-love helps challenge societal messages of shame and injustice, leading to personal healing and the ability to engage in transformative relationships based on mutual dignity and respect.
• Truth-telling and systemic change: The conversation highlights the significance of truth-telling in acknowledging and addressing systemic dynamics of oppression and marginalization. By honestly examining the structures that perpetuate inequality and recognizing our own accountability in dismantling them, we can pave the way for transformation and the creation of an economic system that loves and repairs the damage done to marginalized communities.
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Sonya Renee Taylor is a New York Times best-selling author, world-renowned activist and thought leader on racial justice, body liberation and transformational change, international award winning artist, and founder of The Body Is Not an Apology (TBINAA), a global digital media and education company exploring the intersections of identity, healing, and social justice through the framework of radical self-love. In her book of the same name, The Body Is Not an Apology: The Power of Radical Self-Love, Sonya lays out her radical self-love vision, arguing that all people arrive on this planet in a state of self-love before internalizing messages of shame and injustice from systems of oppression. Healing, Sonya suggests, takes place through reconnecting with our inherent divine enoughness, transforming how we live in and relate to both our bodies and the bodies of others. Sonya writes, “Using the term ‘radical’ elevates the reality that our society requires a drastic political, economic, and social reformation in the ways in which we deal with bodies and body difference.”
Sonya is the author of seven books, including the New York Times bestseller The Body Is Not an Apology: The Power of Radical Self Love (1st and 2nd editions), Your Body Is Not an Apology Workbook, Celebrate Your Body (and Its Changes, Too!), poetry collection A Little Truth on Your Shirt, The Book of Radical Answers (That I Know You Already Know) (Dial Press 2023), andThe Journal of Radical Permission co-authored with adrienne marie brown. She is also co-editor with the late Cat Pausé of The Routledge International Handbook of Fat Studies. She has been the recipient of numerous awards and honors over the past two decades, from her National Individual Poetry Slam Championship award in 2004 to her 2016 invitation by the Obama administration to participate in the White House Forum on LGBT and Disability Issues. More recently, she was awarded a Global Impact Visa where she served as an inaugural Edmund Hillary Fellow in Aotearoa (New Zealand) from 2017-2020.
Sonya’s passion for the arts and collective liberation began at an early age. She graduated from the Pittsburgh High School for Creative and Performing Arts as a musical theater major in 1995. She then went on to earn a bachelor’s degree in Sociology from HBCU Hampton University and a Master of Science in Administration in Organizational Management from Trinity College. This education informed Sonya’s non-profit, advocacy, and activism career, which included work as a sexuality health educator, therapeutic wilderness counselor; mental health case worker; Director of Peer Education at HIPS (Helping Individual Prostitutes Survive) in Washington, D.C.; and Capacity Building and Training Director at the Los Angeles-based Black AIDS Institute.
For over a decade, Sonya built an award-winning international performance poetry and poetry slam career. It was in this iteration of her journey that she stumbled into her greater purpose. At the Southern Fried Poetry Slam in Knoxville, Tennessee in the summer of 2010, Sonya found herself in a conversation with a friend that would change the trajectory of her life. During this conversation, Sonya first uttered the words, “Your body is not an apology.” She did not know this moment of radical vulnerability with a friend would become a poem, then Facebook page, then launch an international movement and shift the cultural lens around bodies and justice through the power of radical self-love. As of 2021, TBINAA’s content has reached tens of millions of people across the world, with visitors to the website from over 140 countries. The digital media platform boasts an Article Library with nearly 1,000 articles from writers across the globe, solidifying TBINAA as one of the pioneering digital media and educational platforms exploring bodies, understanding identities and connecting radical self-love with global issues of intersectional social justice.
Considering herself one of many midwives for the new world, Sonya’s work is engaged in and responsive to the historical moment we find ourselves in and the world we have the ability to bring into being. This is evidenced by her ongoing public video series “What’s Up, Y’all?”, which tackles topics including but not limited to white supremacist delusion, “cancel culture”, abolition and accountability, attacks on reproductive freedom, and the existential twin crises of COVID-19 and climate chaos. The 2020 uprisings against anti-Black terrorism also inspired her to co-found Buy Back Black Debt, a reparations inspired initiative of financial and spiritual right relationship that in October of 2020 facilitated the buyback of over half a million dollars of debt held by Black people.
Sonya is a resident of the globe while maintaining her engagement in issues of racial justice, mental health, reproductive rights and justice, spiritual healing and much more. She continues to share her insights globally as a highly sought-after international speaker, artist and educator on issues of radical self-love, social justice, and personal and global transformation.
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Sonya Renee Taylor 0:00
There's a part of us that's really afraid to reckon with what these systems have made us. And I think one of the greatest pieces of radical self love work that can be offered in the world. It's like if I can start from a place of grace, if I can start from the understanding that I didn't make myself, right, like, that's actually the only place where I think intention really matters, right. I didn't intend to be indoctrinated with systems that propagate marginalization and oppression, I didn't intend that. And so I don't have to feel deep shame and guilt about the fact that I do. But I do have the responsibility and the accountability to undo how I was made when I realized that it harms myself and others. That's the gift, if you can get out of the shame of it, that you didn't make yourself. You were born into a system that we were all born into. And it's given you certain dynamics and ways of thinking, and that those things don't serve your intention, then you can tell the truth, right, and when you can tell the truth, then it becomes so much easier to create a path towards transformation.
RTR Themed Intro 1:04
You ready, we get down to business investing in existence, shifting from a system steeped in extraction that study sapping off people's and planet to cash in slashing, widening gaps in our access to land wealth, peace, satisfaction. Imagine basing relations on more than transactions. It's time for new pathways, and we need to shape them through our inner landscapes, our relations, our approach our dedication, we're on the road to repair as a commitment to transformation.
Welcome to the road to repair a podcast exploring our journey out of a business as usual economy to work collective healing and liberation.
We are your co hosts Andrew X.
Jessica Norwood.
Unknown Speaker 1:50
And I'm the Koshka ion gar
Andrew X 1:51
and we're very excited for this conversation.
Jessica Norwood 1:57
Hi, I'm Jessica Norwood and I am your host on this episode of row to repair podcast. In this episode, I talked with the wonderful phenomenal Sonya Renee Taylor about creating transformative relationships. Sonia is a New York Times best selling author and world renowned activist and thought leader in racial justice, body liberation and transformational change. She's an international award winning artist and founder of the body is not an apology, a global digital media and education company that explores the intersections of identity, healing and social justice through the framework of radical self love. In her book of the same name. The body is not an apology, the power of radical self love. So you lays out her radical self love vision, arguing that all people arrive on this planet in a state of self love. Before internalizing messages of shame and injustice from systems of oppression. Healing, Sonia suggests takes place the reconnecting with our inherent divine enoughness transforming how we live in and relate to both our bodies and the bodies of others. Sonia writes, using the term radical elevates the reality that our society requires a drastic political, economic and social reformation in the ways in which we deal with bodies and body difference. Sonia is the author of several incredible books, including The body is not an apology workbook, celebrate your body and its changes to a poetry collection, a little truth on your shirt, the book of radical answers that you already know, and the Journal of radical permission, which is co authored with our good friend, Adrian Marie brown. This episode is a pretty special one actually, it's a part of a series that I'm doing so there are two episodes this season of road to repair that are precursors, if you will to my upcoming book, which I am excited to announce. Yes, I have a book coming out called believe in you money. What would it look like if the economy loved black people? It's being published on Berrett Koehler shout out to my publisher. So this interview with Sonya Renee Taylor, who is also a bear Kohler artist and writer is joining me when we talk about transformational relationships. Now, let me back up a little bit. What does transformational relationships have to do with any of this? Well, so the conversation that's happening in the book and I guess all around finance, or at least in my world, is how do we We get to a place where we are using the resources that we're investing in a way that transforms the situation that what we're looking for is power, we're looking for change, we're looking for a radical reimagining of the current reality. And our current reality is working for some not so great for others. So what does it mean to invest in repair, and that's what this book is all about this book, believe in you money follows my journey around giving folks the resources that they need to transform the situation that they're in. And let me tell you, I'm excited about this book. But I'm even more excited to share this conversation with you from Sonia Renee Taylor, because the things I'm sharing on this podcast didn't make the book. And so and there was such a rich, incredible conversation that I really want you to be able to enjoy. Alright, so let me keep unpacking this idea for you. We're talking about transformative relationships versus transactional relationships, and transactional relationships don't care what values you have, it doesn't care if this land is indigenous land or black owned businesses, it just is trying to do a deal for whatever reason, who knows, that's a transactional relationship. And they happen so frequently, at this point, we probably cannot even tell the difference. But we know when we have a transformational relationship, transformational relationships start off from a place of what is called right relationship. So this is one of the places where I wanted to start with Sonia to say, let's unpack what right relationship is now me, I learned about right relationship, oh, goodness, when I started studying Buddhism, maybe in my 20s, so I'm probably dating myself here. But it was about interconnectedness. It is about how you show up with the right work, the right speech, the right thoughts, like what it means to integrate all of those things and see yourself as connected to not only yourself, but the people around you, the planet around you all living things, it means that we are one and how I want to be treated and how I want to treat others is a reflection of that connectedness. What I love about Sonia's work is that she talks about the body, and she will point out to you that the body isn't just the physical body. But when we learn and we relate to the physical body, then we can get into the body of us, the group of us and how we see one another part of that core that she talks about is finding that right relationship to yourself that self love that you need in order to do a transformative relationship. So we believe that the root of a transformative relationship comes from a place within comes from understanding our interconnectedness comes from understanding that we have all sort of taken on and taken in the toxicity in our culture that says that we aren't enough that if we don't hoard or if we don't hold things over people, then how will we get our power? How will we be seen and valuable, but Sonia talks about this piece about right relationship to one another right relationship to the self as this radical self love, that when you love yourself, when you love the body of the self, you can also enjoy and love others as well. I think Sony says it much better. But here's the question I asked. I wanted to know what it means when we say right relationship, and how that relates to this idea of transformation. So let's take a listen
Sonya Renee Taylor 9:02
inside of this notion of right relationship inside of this notion of radical self love, is the idea that we are inherently enough that we are inherently worthy. We arrived here on this planet. imbued with worthiness, we don't have to achieve it, it can't be externally gained, it is simply who it is that we are, over time, the systems and structures of exploitation and extraction tell us that in order to be enough, we need some external source. And either that external source is money that external sources power, that external source is some physical aesthetic. Those are the things that make us enough radical self love, and the work of radical self love puts us back in right relationship with ourselves, which is I understand my inherent value, dignity and worth inside the world. And if I understand my inherent value, dignity and worth inside the world, then my relationships with other people aren't extract DivX they are not about trying to figure out how I get my worth from them. But right relationships says, I come to this experience from a place of dignity. And I come to this experience at recognizing your dignity. And from that place, we talk about what it is that we need, that allows both of our dignities to remain intact.
Jessica Norwood 10:21
See, this is why I love Sonia so much, because the depth that she is going to hit ah, does it for me every time listen, the part that I want to really sit with here, and we're still on transformative relationships versus transactional relationships. And the reality is that in finance, in particular, when we're taking on investments, and maybe you've been an entrepreneur, and you've experienced something like this, it's not like we're coming to the table as equals that dignity part that Sonia talks about that part is often really lacking. And it shows up in a myriad of different ways. It's not just in finance for your business or investment capital, when you're sitting with this, you know, VC firm, but it happens in philanthropy too. It happens all over the place where money is moving hands and where one group has what they believe an authority or power of some sort, because they have that money. And what they end up stripping away is that dignity, dignity is something that should be afforded to everyone who's participating in a transformative relationship. So the idea of this is, are we setting the table in this exchange and this interaction in this relationship with one another, whereby you are showing up in your full dignity and in your full power? And you got to sit with that question for a little while, you've got to sit with that to look at did this deal that we put together allow for the other person here to show up with a level of dignity, that would be a transformative relationship, I'll tell you, I am often talking to people who are wanting to work with African American entrepreneurs, or indigenous lands and indigenous communities, and they want to work internationally, they want to work with women, they want to do all of these things. But if you lift it up a little bit, if you kind of look at what they're doing, they are hedging bets that maybe those folks will default will fail, won't be able to pay back those debts. And they're doing that because they know that you don't necessarily have other options in the marketplace. And this still the fact that there isn't the right amount of capital, the fact that we don't have a deliberate intention to make sure that we show up with dignity for each person collaborating here is something that we must unpack if we want to get into a right relationship or a transformative relationship. If not, then it will just remain transactional. And there is no in between line for that you either are creating a scenario in which the other party has a level of dignity. And here's the thing, you can't define that you can't define that you've got to be in relationship, and community enough to ask the other party, the other person's what does that look like for you? If you're unsure? You've got to ask them. What does that look like for you? And see inside of this, the other part of this that Sonia does so beautifully is it sets us up to talk about truth telling, Hmm, oh, my God, because we don't always want to tell the truth, right? We don't always want to tell the truth about how we're showing up that I'm showing up maybe on a little extraction type of mode. And I'm not creating a situation where your dignity is intact. And in flows, I might be coming in and offering you a rate for your business for your for your land, knowing that you should get a little bit better than that. But I will say look, but it's business, it's a deal. But is that the kind of business you should be doing with historically marginalized and discriminated groups of people? That's the real question. If you're doing business with this community of people with whom you're saying you want to repair, then we need to be talking about dignity. And we need to be telling the truth about how we're showing up and how we got to that place of showing up in that way. And that means unpacking our own relationships to money.
Sonya Renee Taylor 14:47
We assumed like oh, I have really good intentions. And so that's what matters, right? And I think that what we forget is, you know the best intentions in the world. I could intend to make a sweet potato pie but if I only put in turn I gotta turn up high. That's what it is. Right? So the question is, what are the ingredients? What's the foundation in which we are moving into this relationship? And can we get honest about that? Because if you can get honest about the foundation, then you can start to say, All right, what's here that isn't serving the goal of transformation? What's here that isn't serving the goal of right relationship? Let's tell the truth about that. Oh, what's here is that the system that we're operating inside of has historically been one that's rooted in white supremacist illusion? Okay, let's get honest about that. Where does that reside in this dynamic right now? Can we tell the truth because if we could tell the truth about that, then we can say, All right, let's control for that, let's do the best that we can to honor that to acknowledge it and to navigate around the dynamics that it brings up. But if we're not going to be honest about that, then we can't do anything. And so I think that the first place is, can we get honest about the nature of the relationship we're in that unto itself is transformative in a society that is built on lying to tell the truth about what you're dealing with, is the first step to transformation. So I think that's that is the first point of transformation is can we be honest about the dynamics that are present so that we can then deal with the repercussions of those dynamics until we do that we can't build anything. So there's a part of us that's really afraid to reckon with what these systems have made us. And I think one of the greatest pieces of radical self love, work that that that can be offered in the world. It's like if I can start from a place of grace, if I can start from the understanding that I didn't make myself, right, like, that's actually the only place where I think intention really matters, right. I didn't intend to be indoctrinated with systems that propagate marginalization and oppression, I didn't intend that. And so I don't have to feel deep shame and guilt about the fact that I do. But I do have the responsibility and the accountability to undo how I was made when I realized that it harms myself and others, that's the like gift, if you can get out of the shame of it, that you didn't make yourself, you were born into a system that we were all born into. And it's given you certain dynamics and ways of thinking, and that those things don't serve, don't serve your intention, then you can tell the truth, right. And when you can tell the truth, then it becomes so much easier to create a path towards transformation than when we're talking about anti blackness in the experience of black folks in the US. We're talking about a global system of anti blackness. And the darker you are anywhere in the world, the worse you're faring off economically, socially, health wise, etc. I think that if we're talking about what does the economic system look like that loves black people, it means the black people get to live vibrant, prosperous, abundant lives with the resources that they need to do that. It also an economic system that loves black people, repairs, the damage it has done to black people. That's first and foremost. Right? So an economic system that loves black people has already cut the reparations check to the people for for the hundreds of years of enslavement, exploitation, and marginalization that it is inflicted on us. That's number one. We just started there, you know, and I always find this such an interest. I said, the US government could decide tomorrow. All right, fine, we can't sort out the numbers, blah, blah, blah, black people have a federal income tax holiday for the next 100 years done. You literally could just do that tomorrow. Right? Like gymnastics, then we go into for why it can't be done and all these things. It's just an example of a commitment to that loving black people. That's what that is, right. But here's what I think is amazing, right is that consequentially? What happens is when you love black people economic system, you do better. When you love black people and you feed into our well being, then we in turn feed into the economic well being of the society that we are in, and then everyone thrives
Jessica Norwood 19:07
so far, Sonia and I have talked about right relationship as a pathway into transformative relationships. And our position really is that transactional relationships tend to happen when we are not loving ourselves and then loving the group and I talk a lot more about love in the book. I know you gotta like love and finance girl. What Yes, love is a verb love is action. We talk about self love from that place. And we say that if you're creating a transformative relationship, you are thinking about dignity, you're thinking about how the other shows up in a relationship. And I'll give you an example of this at runway, which is the company that I co founded and work with amazing group of black women. Our team member Alesia delea, Cree, aided a funders manifesto. We use it for our philanthropic investment, and we use it for our direct investments into our funds. And this is a stroke of genius Mona Lisa is part. And if you ever want to go and read it, you can go to runway dot family and check it out. But this funders manifesto essentially talks about what it means to be in right relationship, what it means to make sure that the people that you're working with are able to show up with a level of dignity and grace, we talk about ridiculous over reporting, we talk about bureaucracy that just sort of keeps going and going where sometimes folks who have money have the luxury to take a wrong time to close a deal or make a grant, can we be mindful of how that strips the dignity of the people who are coming in to a place where they're begging or they're having to plead in some way to get the resources that are really righteously and rightfully theirs? We also talked about truth telling, and I just love what Sonia has to say about can we get honest about the nature of the relationship, that key phrase? And can we get honest about the nature of the relationship sets a tone for me about why am I here? What am I after inside of this, and really starting to recognize the ways that this sort of white supremacy culture has been indoctrinated, so many of us and so many of the things that we call relationship, but that relationship is transactional. And it sees black and brown and women and marginalized communities as an opportunity to exploit. And we want to be deliberate about changing that. If this point, we start talking about what happens when we have these transformative relationships. As you can imagine, it gets so good, because what happens is that we're unlocking this beautiful amount of joy. I would like to think that the body's not apology was absolutely an investment in black joy. You know, I believe that US returning to the essence of our own divine nature, getting outside of a loop that somehow has told us for a billion reasons, as black folks that we are not good enough, we are never going to be good enough this body is inherently wrong. And that right? The idea of dismantling that such that we might have greater access to the embodiment of our own wonder that we might unlock this technology that is black joy more readily brings me delight. And
Sonya Renee Taylor 22:39
you know, I've been in three countries since I left and in three countries I've had people who have recognized and follow the work or read the book come up to me and it's first of all, it's it's mind blowing. I'm like, Why do you know me person in Costa Rica, like that there was a black woman in Costa Rica who came up to me and she was like this you. There was a joy, that something that I shared in the world had offered her something and she got to see that reflected in real time. Nothing warms my heart more than just somebody sharing with me some black human being sitting someplace in a world reading the body is not. It makes me tear up every time I think about it. It's great, great, great joy. But the other thing I want to say what I love the most about Black joy, which is why I'm glad that I get to even participate in it is because in some ways, Black joy is so indifferent to whatever the extenuating circumstances of the world, our black joy just is I describe it like the sun, the sun doesn't need your invitation to shine, it was gonna shine anyway, everybody could be tripping. And if the sun was gonna shine, it was gonna shine period. And the sun is always shining because it just exists as such clouds roll in, they might try to obscure it rain might come storms, but that hasn't stopped the sun from shining. And that is the experience of black joy no matter what it is you've tried to do to us, we simply embody joy because our joy can't be contained. Because it lives outside of the circumstances of oppression and marginalization and so I just get to be happy whenever I even get to you know stand next to the rays of the sun of black joy whatever else it is, you can't really give the sun nothing right? But at the sun is like oh, we're just gonna make you shine a little bit better today. If I get to participate in that. That's all my heart needs.
Jessica Norwood 24:33
I love this piece about Black joy. This piece actually does show up in the book because I love it so much. Now remember, I have a book coming out called believe in you money. What would it look like if the economy loved black people? It is being published by Berrett Koehler and if you want to preorder Hear me out here. Please help us suss that out pre order the book on my website. Just to norwood.com, where you can go to road to repair.com. And you can get information, which will probably take you back to my main website. So definitely check out Jessica norwood.com. And preorder yourself a copy. And here's the thing I'm asking, I'm asking everybody to order three copies, take one for yourself, one to give to someone, and one to make sure that if anything should go down, you got a backup copy. So three copies and share it with you know, someone who you're doing this work with who you're investing with, if you really love them, give them the copy and say This made me think of you. And if you want them to do a little bit better tell them I've been reading, believing you money. And I think it'd be great for you all to buy this at your foundation or with your CDFI or what have you. But the real takeaway here is a lack of joy. If we're investing in an economy that loves black people, what gets unlocked is this black joy, what it gets unlocked in all of us is this joy. If you're loving yourself, if you're moving from a place of right relationship with yourself, if you're truth telling if you're moving from a place of dignity, it unlocks a joy in you, it unlocks a joy in you. And that joy can then be shared with others. Now, who does not want a little bit of joy. And that's the invitation with believing you money that I really loved is that I love when Sonia says Black joy is just indifferent. You know, we're just gonna do what we're gonna do. And I feel like that's a little bit of the antibody. That's the medicine that we need to do the healing work to do the repair work, this last piece that I asked so it was really more about like, what advice would you give, if folks are out here aspiring to do a transformative relationship? They want to move out of transaction and move into transformation? What would you say? Can you
Sonya Renee Taylor 26:58
get honest, can you get honest about your intentions? Because here's what happens is a lot of times we're like, oh, it's believing you money, but it's not. It's actually like boost my self esteem money. Or here's a way in which I can control and navigate power money, right? Like, so we got to get honest, right? Because what happens is when you're not in right relationship with yourself, and you go into those dynamics, you create more harm, you actually just create more harm. If your commitment is not to create harm, then you'll start with saying, Can I get honest about what underlies this right? And kind of tell the truth about that, so that I can control for it. Right? It doesn't mean don't get the money, it means deal with you, right? Like these are two things that can happen at the same time. So get honest with yourself about whatever that is. And that's not just if you are a person of racialized privilege, getting money, it's whatever it is, right? We get money in our families, we invest in people and our families. And we're doing it for power, we're doing it for control, we're doing it for self worth, you know, so get honest with yourself. And then from there, everything that you need to know the next right step is inside of you. And the more that you remove all the other gunk, the clearer that weather vane becomes right, it really starts to get really good at direction. And so once you do that clearing work within safe lead me just let this be the prayer to the universe to the trees to whatever it is that you believe in, that is beyond yourself, as an individual lead me to the place where I can be of greatest service lead me to the place where I can be of greatest service, where this believe in you money demonstrates the greatest, most profound belief that I can share with another person. The system isn't some amorphous blob outside in the world. It is a system of structure of ideas, beliefs, actions, you know, ways of being that are upheld by our individual choice to uphold them. And so this idea of, you know, believe in you money is a thing that can start at an individual level, find a black organization that's doing powerful work, and be like believing you money, right? And believe when you money, you don't want nothing back from you don't want a report, you don't need nobody to run down the 16 objectives and bla bla bla, believing you money is I believe in you, I trust you. And I'm not going to be over here clipping your wings every week. I'm not going to be pulling it leaves and plucking at you and I trust that what it is that comes from this is in service of all of our highest good, just start practicing there. Start there, start small find you a black person tomorrow, and sprinkle a little Believe in your money, and then just watch how it continues to multiply.
Jessica Norwood 29:35
I absolutely loved this conversation with Sonya Renee Taylor Sonia's ability to source language that hits the moment and the mark is so profound and so juicy and amazing. I'm really grateful to Sonia for this conversation. As I mentioned, this conversation fits inside of a book interview that I did and then That book is coming out on Berrett Koehler in October and you can pre order Believe in your money, what would it look like if the economy loved black people on my website, Jessica norwood.com. Or you can go to the podcast, website, roads or repair.com. And check us out, believe in you money expands our vision and our capacity for meaningful and transformative relationships. It reminds us that being in right relationship is about understanding our inherent value, dignity and worth in the world, that if we understand that we are inherently valuable and worthy, then by extension, our relationships won't be extractive in Sonia's words, right relationships says, I come to this experience from a place of dignity. And I come to this experience by recognizing your dignity. And from that place, we talk about what it is that we need that allows both of our dignities to remain intact. That's a transformative relationship. And I hope that you are out here creating transformative, believing you money relationships all over the place. Thanks so much for joining this episode of road to repair.
RTR Themed Outro 31:24
Thank you for joining us on the road to repair. Our greatest hope is that this show will have a transformative impact for those of you tuning in the road to repair podcast is produced by Andrew X Nikica young gar and Jessica Norwood with post production support from Andrew X. Music for the show was produced by Andrew x in close collaboration with artists and sound designer Zachary Seth Greer and the luscious vocals and original poetics of Nyima tenement. Shout out to Sophia hood for all of the amazing artwork, you can check out more of all of their great work on their websites which you can find links to add the road to repair.com We always love the social media shout outs and you can help this message ripple out to those who might really benefit from it by rating this show and leaving a review on Apple podcasts. And if you feel called to you can make a donation to support the show at WWW dot the road repair.com Thanks again for tuning in and stay tuned for our next episode.
We stand with the land we are far more than a commodity. We join with the water bodies on our property. We're reclaiming our shared sovereignty and shaping an economy based on reciprocity, cooperative, accountable ground and justice and ecology, the Empire's toppling who want to be about this prophecy. We've been summoned to the summit. Trust me here for something what is now possible Who are we becoming?
The road to repair is sponsored by the guild in one way. The Guild develops community own models of land housing in real estate as a means to build power and self determination in black and other communities of color. Runway envisions a world where black entrepreneurs thrive in a reimagined economy rooted in equity and justice.
